Recorded live: April 4th, 2026
Blackfriars Playhouse – Staunton, VA

“We’re missing half our history.”

Step into the world of A Bold Stroke for a Husband with director Emily Lyon in this Lights ON Blackfriars conversation. Moderated by Education Programs Manager Lia Wallace, this one starts with a simple question: What happens when we bring lost plays back into the room?

Emily talks about directing Hamlet in a Mad Men world and the work that followed. Work that’s uncovered more than 10,000 plays by women across history. 

At the center is Hannah Cowley’s A Bold Stroke for a Husband. If you know The Taming of the Shrew, you’ll feel the setup. Cowley even nods to Shakespeare in the play. But this time, it’s not one woman holding the whole story. It’s five. Five women who want different things and make different choices. 

The production lives in what Emily calls “fanfiction Spain.” Not historical Spain, but a theatrical Spain where the plans are already in motion, the disguises are barely holding, and you’re watching it fall apart in real time.

They also talk about what’s next for Expand the Canon, including a monologue book with more than 100 pieces from these plays. If you’ve ever gone searching for a classical monologue and ended up with the same five options, this is your way out.

Watch the full conversation. Then come see A Bold Stroke For A Husband on stage.

Join us Live at the Next Lights ON Blackfriars

Whether you’re visiting the American Shakespeare Center for the first time, planning a Saturday outing in Staunton, or looking to deepen your experience of the play, Lights ON Blackfriars offers a welcoming, engaging way to start your day at the theatre.

Select Saturdays | 11:00 AM | Blackfriars Playhouse, Staunton, VA

(Just after the Playhouse Tour—an easy way to build a great theatre morning.)

 

 

(Transcript auto-generated by YouTube)

0:011

Hi second Oh my god. Thank you. So glad you’re here uh this morning. As Millie said, my name is Lia Wallace. I’m the education programs manager for the American Shakespeare Center. So, I manage lots of our education programs. And it is my joy and privilege to introduce to you Emily Lion. Um yeah, clap.

0:24

Uh Emily is an award-winning New York City based director, drama, and artistic director who carves out the humor and authenticity in new and classic test texts. Feminism, climate change, and media ecology are amongst key issues in her work. She has directed nine world premieres, more than 20 full productions, and helped to shape more than 30 new plays. She is the artistic director of Hedgepig Ensemble, where she leads and curates Expand the Canon, a call to action for theaters to include historic women’s work as classics and write the narrative of history. Expand the Canon now features 52 classic plays by historic women writers. You could do one a week for a year. Uh Emily has been working on classical theater since 2004 and directed her first Hamlet before she was 21. Yeah. Uh she has studied at Shakespeare’s Globe in London and worked with the Fulier Theater, the Royal Shakespeare Company, Shakespeare in the Park, and now the American Shakespeare Center as the director for the Blackfriars’s premiere production of Hannah Cowley’s A Bold Stroke for a Husband, which opens next weekend. Yay.

1:33

Emily, welcome to Lights On Blackfriars. um so that you all know and can prepare accordingly. We’re going to talk about some questions I have prepared for 30 or 40 minutes and then I will open it up to your questions. So prepare them. Um let’s start at the beginning with your life story specifically. How did you first get interested in theater? And can you take us on the journey that took you from that moment to this moment? Okay. Yeah. Um just to keep it simple.

2:05

Sure. Yeah. short story. Um, so I when I was five, um, yeah, we go that far back.I saw, uh, Ben Vin, do you know Ben Vin? Yep. Great MC, wonderful actor. Uh, he was leading the International Children’s Festival in Chicago that my parents took me to. And I am an only child. And so I,thank you. That night, I was clearly, I was like, I admire that human. I want to be Benine and started doing shows for my parents in the dining room coming out behind the door frame. Hello ladies and gentlemen, we’ve got a great show for you tonight. Our first act is the Russian dancers. Let’s give them a round of applause. Went off behind the door frame. Only child came back on. Russian dancers did something. Went back off. Wasn’t that great, ladies and gentlemen. Let’s give them another round of applause. Okay, our next act, and that was about when they thought maybe we should put her in theater camp. Um, so we were in theater from a young age and then uh also part of the story is that I fell deeply in love with a boy on the first day of first grade who I continued to be in love with for many years until we moved. Uh, we moved to DC in sixth grade and then in seventh grade we read Midsummer Night’s Dream. And if you’re familiar, there is a character who is deeply in love with a boy who does not love her back. And I was like, I am Helena. She is me. I get this.Please let me read this in class. Uh, and they did. And so, even though it wasn’t the boy I had a crush on, um, we did the scene where Demetrius wakes up and I got to play Helena. And this boy had beautiful Hazel eyes and looks straight at me going, “Helena, goddess, nymph, perfect, divine. To what my love can I compare thine eye?” I was like, “What is this? I love this. This is great. More of this, please. And then I became a Shakespeare nerd. And I always wanted to play Helena. I have never played Helena uh Dreams. Um but I dragged my parents to every production of Midsummer Nights Dream that was in a like tri-state area, which meant that we saw Midsummer Night’s Dream a lot. And what I didn’t realize um from that is I was getting a really great handle on what effect a director has over a play. Yeah, because especially with Midsummer, you’re seeing a bunch of different takes on when it’s set, how you’re going to do the fairies, what’s the justification of why um doesn’t like Lysander, what’s going on there, what’s the difference between the two of them, uh different cuts of the play. My mom kind of got annoyed because I knew the play so well that I would whisper to her like, “They shouldn’t have cut that.”

4:55

sand she’s like, “I don’t I don’t know what you’re um so finally my senior year of high school, I decided to direct it. “And because I got so frustrated that Helena was always the butt of the joke and, you know, on her knees being like,”Oh, kick me, spoon me.” I was like, “I am pathetic, but I’m not that pathetic. “And I don’t know any human woman that is that pathetic. And also, Demetrius was always kind of a jerk. So, you’re like, I don’t get why she likes him. What is that about? uh and of course a myriad of other things. So finally I directed it. I did not play Helena. I do not have Kenneth Branaghs ego. Um, but I loved it. I loved getting to direct and finding the humanity in not only Helena but also Demetrius and all the characters. And so pretty much since then I have been a director focusing on classics. And um I love it.That’s amazing. Midsummer is the gateway drug for so many of us, isn’t it, though?

5:50

It is. But I have to ask, first Hamlet before 21. Yeah. Tell me everything about that production. Where was it? What What did you do with it? What have you learned about Hamlet since that production? Like if you could go back and tell your pre-21-year-old self like some answers, what would they be? Um, okay. So, I definitely did not want to be afraid of directing Hamlet until I was, you know, 40 something and then be like, oh no. Uh, so I was like, let’s just let’s do it. Let’s riff off the band-aid. But also partially um this was years ago um when Mad Men was super popular. It was still on the air. So that gives you a sense of time frame. Um and I was interested in what what was a time that we could really understand misogyny in that how much misogyny there was because it was something we didn’t talk about that much then. I can’t decide if I’m happy about the new shift or not. Um, but let’s let that lie. So, I thought, okay, great. Let’s do Hamlet set in the 60s, early 60s, and the poster for it. I took the, you know, the Mad Man poster where it’s his outline and he’s got a cigarette in his hand, flipped his hand over, put a skull in it. Thank you. Thank you. Smart. Smart. Um, and the costumes were beautiful. It was really fun and I would like to just brag that um on my University of Michigan campus uh we got three times the normal audience for that production. Wow. So I think good on me for that graphic design. Um also Hamlet’s kind of popular so maybe not totally shocking. Uh but I actually I really loved the production. I haven’t watched the video of it since. Um that would be fun to do.

7:43

What if I told you we were screening it right now? Where did you get that DVD? Oh, it totally exists. I believe it. But that would be fun. The main thing I would say to my earlier self about it is um, do not. Actually, put a pearl in the goblet because um no one died, thank God. Um but we had a two-level stage and um Hamlet went up to get Claudius. Claudius was running away. We had stairs on stage and he was running up to the the balcony where there was a portrait of himself naturally. Um and Hamlet pushed him up against the portrait of of himself of Claudius and in tech uh put this pearl put the go you know um follow my mother. What happened was that the pearl fell out of the goblet, thank God, not down his throat, and bounced down the stairs where it then proceeded to smack the dead Gertrude in the face, then roll across the stage slowly and um we were all just containing the giggles because it was wild. It was one of those things that you couldn’t recreate even if you wanted to. And um then our poor Horatio, you know, we had cut the a lot of the war elements, madman. Um so we ended with in flights of angels, singe to thy rest. And then everyone as soon as the last line was done, bursts out laughing, holding it in from the pearl. And Horatio goes, “Come on, guys. That’s really mean.” So that was very sweet. We were like, “No, no, no. It’s not you. It’s not you.” Um but yeah. Yeah, I I mean I love the play. I think it is an incredible piece that speaks to the universality of that character that we don’t really know much about Hamlet as a person other than um he’s just deeply human. And so I think you can see a lot of different Hamlets. It fits on anyone because it’s just deeply personal. And if if you’re willing to go there emotionally, go for it. Amazing. Yeah.

10:04

Um, that was your first Hamlet. Have there been more Hamlets or is this just assuming there will be? Let’s assume there will be. Um I have worked on Hamlets since uh I worked on a bilingual Hamlet, English and Spanish, which we did a reading of at the Fulier. Actually did two readings of at the Fulier, which was very fun. Um, and so it was great to know the play very well before heading into that. Um, but yeah, hasn’t been a full production since, but we’ll see yet. Yes. Um, all right, that’s enough about Shakespeare. Um, so Expand the Canon has become a key resource for anybody interested in studying or producing or interacting with classic theater. So, first, thank you. Thanks. Thank you.

10:53

Um, now please can you tell us how it came to be and how it functions today?

10:59

Yeah. So, um, you mentioned Hedgepig Ensemble in in our bio. I assume you grabbed that from my website, which I clearly need to update. Um, so we started as Hedgepig Ensemble. I did not create Hedgep. It was co-founded by Mary Kandler and Gwen Kelso in 2012 as a ensemble theater of classic plays that delved into especially stories by women and highlighting women’s leadership. I found that I was like hello sign me up. I would love to be involved. Um I became the resident director and then the associate artistic director and for many years we were doing Shakespeare through a feminist lens. Czechov through a feminist lens. Um, lots of excellent plays, but you know, sometimes having to turn ourselves into pretzels to figure out, well, how do we really get this to fit our mission? And then in 2018,early 2019, somebody handed us a Katherine Trotter play. And we’re like, who is that? What do you mean? There’s a play by a woman through history that we did not know about. And all of us have theater degrees. and we literally have a company about women in classical theater. Curious. So, we started doing a deep dive. We applied to a grant um that gave us, you know, a little bit of baby money uh to start doing some research on these women. And I uh I don’t know if you know the Kilroyy’s list. Um, for those of you who are also interested in new work, uh, The Killer’s List is a great reference um, that highlights plays by women and non-binary writers today. And they were typically, I think they started as plays that hadn’t been produced. Um, and for a year or two, I was actually a reader on that committee. The way they did it, they were like, “Hey, tell us what fabulous new plays by women and gender expansive writers you’ve come into contact with. If a play gets a couple votes, we’ll put it on the list.” Brilliant. I was like, “Surely this will be easy. We’ll just do that for plays by women through history.” So, we put out a call. Um, I think maybe 15 people answered. A bunch of them said Offra Ben. Um, and otherwise it was kind of cricket. So we’re like, “Oh, we need to do this ourselves.” Yeah. Cool. So our first year, we created a database of 500 plays by Women Through History. Um read a bunch of them, curated the nine best. And since uh now in our sixth year, we have a database of over 10,000 plays by women through history. And we have read just shy of 1,600. And we have obviously our 52 that we love and advocate for. So we’ve shifted from being a producing company to being an advocacy and research company that really our goal is to get these plays in the hands of different theaters, different communities, different educational institutions such that we really can expand the canon. We love Shakespeare. We just also think there are so many more people that we can also love um and fill in those gaps where where they exist. So you’re telling me there are other playwrights? Yeah. And like women? Yes. What? Um so this is incredible. Um I I never knew. Um how did we crazy? Um I still don’t believe it, but apparently um how does a play go from being in the database to being one that you advocate for?

14:48

Great question. So, um you know, there are a couple, there are definitely a lot of steps. We first have to hear about the title of the play and then sometimes we hear about the title and we can’t find the script. Luckily first step is find the script. Um then we have a reading committee of around 30ish professionals from all over the country sometimes different countries uh who do a first read and tell us if this play is worth reading again. Some definitely aren’t. Just because it’s by a woman doesn’t mean it’s good. Um or even feminist. So, oops. Um but that’s why we curate. Yes. And so we have uh a curating a reading committee. Then it goes if it gets well reviewed. Uh we have a team of curators. Uh usually between four to six of us who are reading those plays. Um and we read usually like 60 to 80 plays and narrow it down to the best of the best. And we try and think about pulling something from each category roughly of like having at least one play from the 1600s,1700s, 1800s. Um, and also trying to have a global uh representation as well so that we’re not just going from dead white guys to dead white ladies. That is, um, I Yeah, there are other people. other people. Uh, and so many of our favorite plays are translations of classics from other countries. Uh, including a Ukrainian play. Yeah, very funny. Verse Ukrainian play on that list, the Stonehost. Um, we’ll have to look into it. Please do. Um, so as a person uh myself who does a lot of editing and formatting work with early modern texts, I am lucky to work in uh for this one dead white guy um who that we’ve all been obsessed with for centuries. So yeah, he’s who knows. Good work.Good work. Good work. Um and so I have an abundance of um formatted, edited,thoughtfully curated editions of the plays to pull the choices for our script from. And what a what a joy that is. What a privilege for me to have. Um, and it’s got me thinking a lot about how the canon is often established by what the canon already is because that’s what we have access to with editorial apparatus,right? It’s got line numbers, standardized spelling, footnotes, and all sorts of stuff. Um, one of the things that I have found so valuable about Expand the Canon is that you provide cleaned up copies of these plays for theaters to use for anybody to be able to actually read them. 

17:33

Is there anything about that process of going from finding a play in whatever state it is to presenting it to practitioners? the public, whatever, that you might want to share with us that perhaps we don’t know about that work?

17:39

Oh my gosh. Um, I mean, I guess it depends on how nerdy you all are. I mean, we’re here on Saturday morning. That is true. That is true. Um, yeah. I mean, I I would love to have the time and academic support to do footnotes and like get God, if if the Ardan Ardan, if you’re watching this and want to be involved, we’d love to we’d love to chat. Um, I I do really dream of doing an anthology um and a published series of these plays with more dramaturical background, footnotes, explainers, all that kind of stuff. Um, one thing that’s tough is we don’t own currently we don’t own the rights to any of these plays. A bunch of them are public domain and um the ones that aren’t are either more recent or translations um that we again our our main goal is advocacy. So I I am typically the one formatting the plays. Uh I will also admit I have found some spelling errors. Um so I go back and fix those semi-regularly. Um but I what I find is really interesting is in formatting you get to know the play really well. Um it’s a very specific knowledge. It is. It is. And so I as a curator, as an artistic director, and as often the person who’s meeting with folks to do consultations,um we will will offer, hey, if you want to grab me for an hour, we can talk about what theater um like what your community needs, what conversations you’re looking to have, how many humans you want to employ, and how can we how can we match you with the best play? Um,and h doing that formatting work is really useful. Uh, but yeah, my my dream is to have more academic texts that you can pull off the shelves of of any library um available to you, but it’s it’s it’s joyful. It’s tough, but joyful. Yeah, it’s hard work. And I’m glad somebody’s doing it. Even if that somebody is me. Exactly.

19:48

Um, uh, okay. Before we move on to Bold Stroke and the Blackfriars and like why we’re here, um I have to ask you about future-facing films. I do. Oh my gosh, I know. I But okay. Okay. So, this is a film studio you founded that quote uses comedy to generate a sense of urgency around facial recognition technology, its rapid development, widespread usage, and potential dangers. And we in the Shakespeare field joke a lot about the prevalence of like early modern facial blindness as a need for a plot device. Like, you put on a hat so I don’t know who you are anymore. Um, and I also find it interesting that, like at a baseline, what theater does is put faces in proximity to each other. Like that’s the the thing that our industry exists for. So there’s something going on with faces that I just find interesting. Um, and like faces seem important, I guess. Um, so could you put more fear of AI into my life and tell me more about the dangers of facial recognition technology? And I’d love if you could make it funny.

20:43

I will do my best. Um yes it so we founded this company um amidst the pandemic. Haha starting out with comedy already and classic right um and it’s always been something I have been aware of and I’m I’m going to shout out to my mother who has always had foresight of reading the newspaper and being like you know I’m kind of concerned that there are more of these things happening. Um, and so she kind of warned me. I was like, “Okay.” Uh, and then of course the whole Edward Snowden thing came out and I was like, “Oh, you’re right. They are kind of tracking us and putting all that data together that you assumed they were doing.” So then I just I mean, once again listened to my mother. Um, but especially during the Black Lives Matter protests, uh, there were a lot of reports of, “Hey, don’t take photos of people at the protest because they’re using this facial recognition technology and they’re adding people to lists.” Great. So, nothing like just casually tracking all of the people um in your country to to monitor them for for why Uh, depends on who’s in office. Oh god. Yeah. So that scared me and there was a brief time where I was like, should I drop everything and become a lawyer? And then I realized every lawyer I know is miserable. I should not do that. So I was like, okay, what what do I what am I good at? I’m I’d like to think I’m good at storytelling and I’d like to think that I’m funny. Um, and I know that especially dark I mean one of the things that I try to pride myself on when I direct plays is that I think heavy topics are best broached when you have humor and connection first. Uh, it’s a lot more compelling to go on that deep dive when you’re like that person’s funny. I’ll keep listening. Oh. Um, one of my favorite TV shows is Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. um who is I will say I think the only person to make me truly starruck. Uh you met him? I well met is an overstatement. I walked by him on 11th Avenue and normally in living in New York I feel like I can come up with something good to say to a celebrity of like thanks for your work or like I really loved that thing. Um trying to make sure that I’m adding to their day. Well, all I could say when I saw John Oliver was, “I love you so much.” To which he responded, “Thank you so much.” Yeah. Um really composed. Anyway, um facial recognition is something we can’t it’s we can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube there once your face is in a database and they have it. Uh what are you going to do? Get plastic surgery every couple weeks if you don’t want to be recognized somewhere? Yeah, not really. Not a fun thing. Um, and also with drones. If you combine those two things, scary possibilities. So, uh, I will admit this company was short-lived. Not because I don’t care about it anymore. Um, I will also say if you can put a little camera blocker on your phone because they can um, theoretically just hack into that and look at you anytime. So, I’m sure none of you use your phones when you go to the bathroom, but never do. But if you do, maybe consider getting a camera cover. Um, yeah. So, scary stuff. Uh, not doing that company so much anymore. Um, for a variety of reasons, including one of our three founding members had a baby who’s extremely cute. We all got busy, and the pandemic ended is not the right word. Um, but we returned to being able to do theater, and that is my true love. So, well, thank you for giving me exactly what I asked for. Oh, good. I don’t know how funny it was, but there were good moments in the John Oliver bit was great, you know. Um,

24:52

suh, okay, turning to Bold Stroke and Hannah Cowley. Um, what can you tell us about Hannah Cowley? Who was she? When was she writing? What do we know about her life?

25:02

Oh, what a great question. I I love Hannah Kelly. Um, and there’s some fun etc gossip with her and another writer. Uh, but the story goes that she she married a a decently younger man. Good for her. Go. Um, and he was a theater critic for a time and they went to the theater uh together and watching some I guess apparently disappointing play. Uh, she turned to him and goes, “Well, I could write as well myself.” So she did. She went on good for her and the next day had uh the next maybe the next week um had the first act of the runaway which is one of her more popular comedies as well. Um she finished that play, sent it to David Garrick who for all our Shakespeare nerds in the audience was a big part of reviving his legacy in the late 1700s. Um and I want to say shout out to David Garrick. He also helped produce a number of women uh women playrs which included Hannah Kelly. So she went on to be a very successful writer mostly um in comedy. Um I will say this made her husband I don’t know jealous may not be the right word. Um I haven’t met him but he then once she started to become the more of the breadwinner with her writing um thought I should get a better job. So, he went on to work with the East India Company and went on a trip that he never returned from. Oops. Oops. Um, yeah, poor Mr. Kelly. But, uh, Hannah kept writing. She wrote, uh, her more famous play than Boldstroke is the bell strategy, uh, response sort of to the bow strategy. and she wrote a lot, was very funny, and then um got into a paper war with fellow ETC writer Hannah Moore. Um both Hannah’s both Hannah’s. There are a lot of There are a lot of British Hannah’s. That’s fair. We love a British Hannah on the ETC list. We’ve got Hannah Moore, Hannah Kelly, Hannah Brand. I’m trying to remember if I’m forgetting one. I hope not. But certainly at least three. Um it’s enough. Yeah, that’s plenty of Hannah’s. But um they kept arguing after who was plagiarizing whom. And actually the play on our list from Hannah Moore is The Fatal Falsehood. Hannah Cowley apparently got upset that she was like, “You have plagiarized one of my plays for that.” Um and so Fatal Falsehood was Hannah Moore’s last play. She stopped writing and she pivoted into really being focused on education. Okay. and then famously founded a bunch of schools. There are a lot of Hannah Moore schools. She’s also a particular character. Um but yeah, Hannah Cowley, funny writer. She kept writing after that tiff, thank goodness, which is when we get Boldstroke for Husband. Um but she’s a witty gal who also clearly loved Shakespeare.

28:10

Um do you remember your first interaction with this with Boldstroke for a Husband and what your initial thoughts were about it? Um, yeah, they continue to be my thoughts, which is I love this and we should do this play instead of Taming of the Shrew forever and always.Tell me what. say more. 

28:28

Yes. So, we first read it um our first year of doing the xpanded canon list and I loved that Olivia references in her first scene, she references Katherine from Taming of the Shrew. It’s like Katherine, please. She’s got nothing on me. It’s like, okay, tell me more. Um, and you’re getting all of the structures that you think you want from Taming of the Shrew. Um, a woman who is pushing away her suitors, a frustrated dad who just wants his children to get married so they’ll be secure. Um, you’re getting funny, witty, wooing scenes. Uh we like the and a much more satisfying ending if I do say so myself. Um oh you have goofy suitors who are unsuccessful. Love a goofy suitor. I think ours are funnier. Um but what’s also delightful is that instead of two women um you get five. You get five women who all have their own thoughts about love about what they want. They all have a sense of agency over their future and their desires. Um, and you just get many more perspectives. It’s also none of the scenes are scenes of abuse, which is also one of my favorite things about it. Um, that that we really get to see why a woman might perform shrewess. Uh, which, yes, she’s shrewd about it. Thank you so much. I’ll be here for the rest of this hour. Um, and yeah, I just love how smart they all are. I love that we get a uh a character who is not interested in being married, wants who owns property, and also gets to tell men like it is. So, it’s it’s really fun. Very funny. And the women get what they want. So this is cra like I’m still reeling from the whole like there are women playwrights thing. Um, 1783 is when this was written. Um, so not they’re not anymore today, right?

30:45

Uh just got some websites I want to share with you. Yeah. Um, but like does this, I have to imagine that Hannah Cowley got to be influenced by her own experiences. I mean, I know we weren’t there and they’re all dead. Um, but she wrote this after her young husband went off and never came back with the East India. That’s true. I have to remember the dates specifically, but I don’t know that. That’s That’s okay. That’s okay. Um,this is Annalise, who is our fabulous drama for Bold Stroke for Husband. She’s been doing a great job. Um, but who would certainly know intimately why a woman might not want to be married and what um, resources are available to her to prevent that. And it’s like not coming through the lens of a man. This is crazy. I’m sorry. I’m just although also there is one character who desperately loves her marriage. She’s delighted by her husband and frustrated too. Um, but really committed to that traditional format. She wants to be married. She wants her husband back. Um, and she’s going to do anything to make that work. Then we have another character who wants to be married, but only to the right guy. What is that like? Um, says the single woman. Um, and we’ve also got one young character who just doesn’t want to be married right now, please. And it’s so nice to get all those different perspectives, like a range of female perspectives. Yeah, this is crazy. I don’t Okay, I’m fine. This is fine. Um, I have one more general question to ask you I open it up to questions from you all.

32:37

So, prepare yourselves accordingly. Um, can you tell us about the sort of world that you’ve created in this production? What kinds of um, uh, decisions led to the costumes, the props, the pieces that we’ll see um, and that got, you know, specifically designed and built for this world of this production?

33:00

Yeah. Um, so our girl Hannah, lovely British woman who almost certainly never went to Spain. That said, this play is set in Spain. Um, so her version of Spain takes liberties. Um, some of the character names are not particularly Spanish. Um, so I have referenced that sort of we’re in fanfiction Spain. Um, we’re in sort of our idea of what Spain might be because that’s about as close as Hannah is going to get as well. Um, I think she’s drawing on the sense of passion and uh, excitement, fullness of feelings while also fitting that into a restoration, um, you know, class comedy shape. So, we’re we’re really leaning into that, but also our costume designer, Caroline, has come up with the term “shm-eriod”, which I enjoy. Um, it’s we’re going roughly 1783 in roughly Spain. Um, but it’s ultimately like what might Hannah Callie’s dream of this have been? Um, especially if she was maybe hanging out with us today in my version. So, we’ve got a little bit of a tel nolla vibe at the beginning, just a hair. Um, we’ve we’re leaning into our red romantic roses of the dream of Spain and really having a good time. I think it’s nice. One of my dreams is that we do Boldstroke for a husband so much, and everyone knows it because it’s part of the Canon that we need to start, you know, setting it somewhere else. And gosh, wouldn’t it be fun to do a bold stroke set in 1920s Hooverville or I don’t know or like a gender-bent madman? Yes. Uh I look forward to when we need that kind of stretch and interpretation, but um for this one, as we’re still on the earlier days of getting to know this play, I thought, let’s just let’s just go for how she wrote it. So yeah, you’ll see some really beautiful “shm-eriod” costumes. um and some gorgeous roses that help us get into the world.

35:24

Amazing. Are there any um discoveries you made about this particular space? Like what did you learn about the play or about the Black Friars by directing this play in the Blackfriars?

35:37

Um yeah, so this is my first full production in the Blackfriars. And one thing that it just so reinforces about this play is that it is a play really meant to have the lights on. It’s really meant for that audience connection. There are so many aides. There’s um so many stories about lying and truth and disguise and how are we how are we making sure that you’re with us while we wear a different hat and play somebody else. Um, Anelise actually brought up this very smart point that the very beginning of the play kind of lays out its thesis is that um, it’s important in Madrid to be a good liar and to keep you in on all the jokes. It’s so helpful to have the lights on and be able to say, “Did you get that? Are you with me?” Um, just checking. Great. So, I think it is a great fit for the space. Um, it is really fun to have a place that is both indoors, so if it’s raining, you’re fine. Um, but also still has that sense of communal sharing in this very goofy, very loving story.

36:50

Amazing. As promised, it is now your turn. If you have questions, raise your hand and I will call on you. Yes, my friend. So, you’ve read a lot of early modern female playrights. When you direct another play by an early modern female playwright, is there one you have in mind that you would want to direct? And if so, why?

37:12

Oh gosh, there are so many. Um, look, Spain is fun. Everybody likes Spain, even if you’re not Spanish. Um, there is uh Valor Gravio, which is a play by Anakaro de Mala. Um, it is a another pants role of a woman who has been wronged by Don Juan and dresses up as a man so she can kill him for revenge. However, turns out she’s in a romantic comedy. So, um, that’s a really really fun piece that I would love to work with. House of Desires by Suana Enz de la Cruz. Um, a writer from colonial Spain. Uh, colonial Mexico, sorry. Um, she became a nun because she wanted to continue writing and being an educated nerd. Uh, there’s also some very sexy poetry that she wrote. Um, maybe other women. We don’t specifically know, but we’re guessing. Um, House of Desires is also really fun. Has another Don Juan in it. I think it’d be really fun to do a season of Don Juan plays. Um, there’s actually also The Stonehost by a Ukrainian writer set in Spain. Looks at Don Juan. hilarious. Yeah. Um, so all of those are really fun, but I would also really love to do the Hannah Moore Fatal Falsehood. It is, I think it is really easy to gloss over some of the text and read it as melodrama. It is to be fair kind of in the world of melodrama but um she’s writing in verse and I think there is so much humanity in that text and that language that unlike boldstroke which is really more a um not quite comedy of manners but really more about like the shape of how we’re presenting ourselves, Fatal Falsehood is really a texty play. It’s got kind of a a fake, not a fake Iago. Um, but there’s one character who has some wonderful siloquies being like, “Hey, so I’m the villain in this, but I’m going to pretend that I’m a nice guy, and that’s how we’re going to do it.” Um, I won’t tell you why it’s fatal. Uh, wink wink. You can read it or see it. Um, but we I also have cut that play to be either going with the normal tragedy ending or making it more of a comedy because I think it can hold that. Um, and would love to get to tinker with with that option. So, so we’ve got ideas for our next several more but we’ll stop it.

39:53

But other questions? Yes. So, I’m I’m curious about this. You clearly you’ve curated and researched this extensive list of all of these classical plays. What What sort of like takeaways do you have from looking so deep into this specific topic? Like what what surprising challenges did you run? I feel like I’m rambling. Am I making sense still? Yes. But it’s a broad question. So, I’d love to know what part you want to know. What lessons did you take away from it? like what tell me more about that experience of like curating this big list of all these cool and any any trends or themes that other than Spain.

40:33

Other than Spain um I mean I think the more and more we’ve dug in the things that keep hitting me are one we’re missing half our history. Women have always been writing, and women have always been a part of creating our futures in our pasts, and it’s not that they didn’t exist. It’s not that um they were so subjugated they couldn’t have thoughts, opinions, be literate. Um you know, you almost only ever make a rule about something when it’s already happening. Mhm. Um, so I think it’s so interesting to get into the dirt and understand how much we’ve been ignoring half of the perspectives that have existed through the past. Also, it makes me more aware. I mean, I think one of the reasons we love classic theater is that it makes us present to how enduring humanity is and that experience. Um nothing that is happening now other than iPhones um you know is new. We have plays we we have a play from like 18 mid 1800s from a writer in China um articulating maybe not necessarily a trans experience but really it could be read that way um of gender dysphoria frustration on um on what it is to be a woman and she’s got a painting of herself as a man on stage. Um, and so it’s those aren’t new conversations. There’s, you know, May West wrote a play called The Drag in the late uh I think 1926, I want to say. Um, and you know, there’s a whole like drag show that happens in the middle of it. Of course, it is also in the frame of this conversation wanting to be shut down. Um but just the more and more you go back the more and more it’s like everything has always been happening and it’s really struck me that um what what I hope is the goal for this well what is the goal and what I hope happens um with this project is that we make a dent in our assumptions of the present and the future because the past lays the groundwork that only half of people or less than half um have been making a difference, telling the story, um, and have been worth highlighting and understanding. And the more that we can honor and understand the perspectives of the other half or more, um, the more that we’ll expect those perspectives and voices to be in every room, in every educational space. Um and one thing that I think is interesting is the percentage of women leaders globally uh has been like countries that have had women leadership. I think it’s around 15%. Also around 15% is the um number of women film directors. H I think there is a strong correlation between whose stories we let be told and whose stories we listen to and who we’re willing to listen to in leadership. Um because I think if we can understand and empathize with you and your story, we’re much more willing to understand how you’re coming at different important issues. So I don’t know if that’s quite the answer you were looking for in terms of patterns. There are there are lots um so yeah um I could talk endlessly but those are the things that really resonate with me. I appreciate it. Yeah.

44:31

We got time for some more. Yes.

44:34

Thank you first of all for doing what you’ve done. Um I think is like remarkable. My company actually produced the drag last year. So um that’s fun. How did it go? Great. Please, just to your point, um I would like to mention something that’s uh that’s actually appropriate to this. Um we actually got death threats when we were doing our uh our fundraising because we did a drag uh lip sync contest as our fundraiser for that show. Um and we literally had people telling us they were going to wait in the parking lot with guns. Um and literally had death threats for that. We actually moved the fundraisers online because of it. It was heartbreaking. Um so we’ll talk about that later. But um I actually am just curious about like um I I just feel like this work isn’t done. You know what I mean? Like I just feel like this work just isn’t quite done. And I know that Hedgepig is somewhat still doing some of this uh curating for sure. Yeah. Um, and I know that UCLA also has their expand the Canon where they’re actually trying to broad that diversifying the classics. Yeah.Right. Diversify the Canon the classics. Um, which obviously is great, especially for international writers from early modern theater. Um, is there have you had any kind of collaboration with like universities like that before or plan any? I just think it’s great for it to be in that educational space.

46:09

I agree. And one thing that I’ve been so grateful to Mary Baldwin specifically is that they have been really up for putting um these expand the Canon texts in some of their educational spaces. Uh so it’s so fun to come here to Santon and have students be like, “Oh, I read that play. Delightful. Let’s talk about it.” Um I really admire what Diversifying the Classics does. They are specifically um looking at Spanish Golden Age. Uh there’s also a company called Classic C LS IIX um that is specifically looking at black writers. So there are um companies that are trying to all tackle this issue in different ways. Um there are also a number of companies that produce these plays. Uh, they tend to be I mean, awesome and we love them and respect them and are so behind that. Um, they also tend to be smaller companies.So uh that’s kind of how we fell into the specific lane that we are in now um, is that we found it is most we hope it is most effective to use our resources in advocating larger theaters, um, and educational spaces to include this work. You know, there are definitely there are lists online of here’s all of the plays by women that were written in the 1700s. Great. But if I’m a producer, am I going to read them all? Mhm. If I’m, you know, which ones are good,which ones are relevant? Um, so we’re definitely not done curating plays. Uh, we did think, okay, 52 is a lot, and I wonder how many people other than us have read them all. Um,but yes, getting close. Um, we’ll definitely be returning to curating and adding to our list. and we kind of took the year off, um but we’re right now getting ready to release a monologue book um of over a hundred monologues from plays on the list. So that’s what we’ve been up to um in the in the sort of quieter months and hopefully that book comes out in May. Oh my god. Yeah, that’s so exciting. Scenes that you guys did really helpful. Oh, thanks. Oh, I’m so glad to hear that. Please, it’s always helpful to know what is helpful to others. Um, yeah, that was that was a fun that was a fun time. Your podcast episodes are very helpful. I’ve been using them to promote the show. Oh, yay. Oh, thank you. Yes, we we have a podcast called This is a classic, the Expand the Canon Theater podcast. Uh, so thank you. I’m glad to hear that. They have an episode on bold for a husband. It’s less than 30 minutes and really fun. Yay. You hear me gush about this play even more. Yay. Uh, we got classic. This is a classic. This is It is a classic. It is.

49:12

Um, we got time for some more questions. Yes, Gary. I was fortunate enough to be able to read the script that you prepared for those strokes. And so, I’ve got a question about something that Hannah did and something that I think you did. It surprised me. I think Victoria is the character who keeps saying the reason I’m doing all this is for my kidsand that resonated with me for a couple of different reasons. But I’d like you to talk about that if you would, whether that’s an excuse for her stance, whether you where you would go, what you make of that line that she repeats throughout the script.

49:54

Well, um I’ve been delighted that a number of my friends have been becoming parents. I am at this point just an auntie, unofficial auntie to many very cute kids.But I don’t know any mother that would have that be an excuse rather than have it be the truth. I think taking care of our next generation and our children is one of the core themes of the play. I think that’s why Caesar cares so much about Olivia getting married, not because wow, it would be so good to have a man in the house. Um, I think it’s really to secure the future of their line and make sure that she’s going to be okay and have somewhere to live and have an income um and and just have that future set for her. So, I think there’s definitely a resonance between Caesar’s needs and Victoria. And I think it especially because Victoria ends up also saying, you know, I want my husband back. I really love him. That it’s nice that it’s not just her chasing after chasing after a man who has maybe not necessarily given her the best reasons to do so. Um, there is also the strong need and backbone of I have kids, and this was my land that I needed to pass on to them, and I want to make sure their futures are secure. So, I definitely think that her driving overall need is to get the future set for her kids, and then the dream and the hope is to have her husband and be a happy family together. But I really read that as her true motivation um for the many hijinks that occur during the play. And the other question was about updating the music, and I wondered how you worked your way to the example you chose for that.

51:55

Yes. So, um, I’ve made a couple, not many, but a few linguistic updates as we do with Shakespeare. Um, and one of which is there’s a regularly referenced instrument that in the original was a um, a jaw harp or a Jew’s harp as it was referenced. It does um set up for one really dumb, absolutely cutable, and now removed Jew joke. Uh, which I guess maybe really hit hard at the time, but I am not interested in and is not a core to the play. So also I was like, how many people know the sound of a jaw harp? No. I mean, some, you know, if you watched a video, you could be like, “Oh, yeah. I’ve seen that before.” But it doesn’t hit the same way that I think her joke was intending to communicate to audiences. It’s supposed to be a nasally kind of uh lower-class country goofy instrument. It is supposed not to belong in a band. So I was like, okay, what, what will, what is a reference that we can use to get the intention of her joke? Um what will we recognize immediately as not an instrument that you would see in, you know, Carnegie Hall? Uh probably. And so I went with not with that attitude. And I also just think kazoo is a funny word. Yeah. So, it’s fun to say it gets absolutely the same um kind of image in our minds of what type of uh difference we’re highlighting from a band and um and it’s just silly. So, yes, that is the one non-783 word that snuck in there. All of the other words are her words. um with I did shift a number of instances of termagant to be shrew. Um I don’t know if any of you are commonly tossing around the word termagant in your daily lives, but it basically means the same as shrew and I was like this is going to communicate better. Um but that’s also a word that is in the text originally as well. Uh, so I updated those and I I think we we this round we’ve updated mother-in-law to be stepmother because that is what she means and mother-in-law means something different to us now. Sets up a very different joke. Yeah. Um, so those are my updates to to honor Hannah’s intentions. Uh, which is something we do with Shakespeare when we’re like, you’re not going to get that Let’s either cut it or shift a word so that it it hits the way he intended it to. Yeah. And we at at ASC, what I’ve noticed in my time here with um our sort of principles about changing text and when we change text and when we don’t. Um if if we think that the word is hard, but we can teach it to you with context,great. If we think teaching it to you will do more harm or distraction to your experience of the play because of the way that word has shifted over time. Um perhaps it is a homophone for a slur or something. Um that would not be part of the conversation the play is having because these characters absolutely do harm to each other and that is part of the conversation that we are engaging in when we stage those moments. Um then we’ll change it. But if we’re not just shying away from discomfort. Yeah. Um cuz discomfort I mean I think that’s the hallmark of comedy is if we all feel a little bit weird about consent by the end like that’s a Shakespeare comedy. Um but that there are different um political conversations, cultural conversations that have shifted along with language in the last 400 years that distract more than they enhance the experience of the play. Um and we’re not trying to trip every wire just because exists. Um, and so I think this was very in line with that um, the vibe of trying to keep the joke without running a foul of all of the in the last 400 years trip lines that are in the way um, of our enjoyment of it. We can do one more question. Yes. Um, so what advice would you have because as we’ve said the work isn’t done. What advice would you give to the everyday thespian or student who might want to do a deep dive themselves to see if they can find other works by women or non-binary people at the time with trans people have always existed. So, I mean, what what what uh advice would you give to kind of get someone to start dipping their toes in? I mean, my first advice is, hey, have you listened to our podcast or gone to our website? Um, expandthecanon.com.We make a lot of these plays available and accessible. Uh, we have them listed.

57:02

Again, there are 52, so there’s almost certainly something that is going to interest you. Um, or something that will fit in a slot at your theater if you produce. Um, I think our hope with the monologue book is that it’s going to be a really good way to get people um,introduced to some of these plays and what kind of text, what characters really draw them and then that can lead them to getting into which play they want to advocate for themselves. Uh,honestly, one thing that I do, I’m I am this level of nerd now when I go on vacation. Um, I mostly go so I can go to every used bookstore. Um, almost anytime I go to a used bookstore, there’s at least one play a woman by a woman or non-binary writer that I either didn’t have didn’t hear about or um didn’t have the script of. So, even at the the Barrister Row bookstore over here, I found one that I was like, “Oh, I’ve been looking for that script. Thank you.”Yay. So I mean partially you can just go dig into libraries, bookstores. Um you can also if you want uh sign up to be a reader with our reading committee and be on sort of the front lines of seeing if any of these plays are good. We’ll send you usually two a month. Um for this year it was three months. So six plays that you get to hopefully become friends with or tell us are awful. um and save someone else from reading that one.

58:37

There was, oh gosh, there was one play our first year that we had someone read and it was so bad, so bad that he was like I can’t do this and didn’t read any more plays. Which is exactly why we want to curate and not be like yeah any play by a woman do that one. No. Um but yeah our our podcast is a great resource. Our website is a great resource. uh send us an email. Um but yeah, also diversifying the classics, classics with an X. Um there are so many different uh ways in.

59:14

So it’s just determining which way you want to come in. But um yeah, in May you can you can buy our monologue book. Can’t wait. Yeah.

59:22

Well, look out for that monologue book in May and come back next week for the opening of Boldstroke for a husband by Hannah Cowley. Thank you so much.